CLEARWATER, Fla. — We’re about a month into 2025 spring training. And it’s still a little weird to think we now live in a world where the Yankees are no longer the Evil Empire.
To the untrained eye, maybe it’s tough to notice the difference. But you don’t even have to take my word for it. This news was announced weeks ago, when Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner said that baseball basically consists of two groups of franchises.
1. The Dodgers
2. Everybody else — including, obviously, his team
“It’s difficult for most of us owners to be able to do the kind of things that they’re doing,” Steinbrenner said of the Dodgers on YES Network’s “Yankees Hot Stove” show.
It doesn’t get any more official than that, does it? The Yankees are now just one of the guys, says the owner of the Yankees. So when I arrived in spring training, I was on this case from Day 1.
How were the Yankees adjusting to life as Just Another Team? How was the rest of the sport coping now that the Yankees were Just Like Them?
These felt like simple, easily digested questions — until I actually started asking them. That’s when I discovered the universal reaction of a cross section of people in the game, who looked at me as if I’d just asked: “How are you adjusting now that sky is green instead of blue?”
• “They’re still the Yankees, man,” said Red Sox manager Alex Cora, laughing heartily. “I’m not buying that. They have to be the Evil Empire. They’re the Yankees.”
• “I don’t look at them any differently than I did last year,” Rays manager Kevin Cash said. “I’m not going to challenge anything Mr. Steinbrenner says, because he’s been incredibly gracious to us (in letting the Rays play this season at their spring training stadium). But I think they’re really good.”
• “I’m not going to be playing the world’s smallest violin for the Yankees,” a rival American League executive said. “And I don’t think they’re asking anybody to.”
Geez, that didn’t go well at all. Don’t these people pay attention? The owner says the Yankees are just one of the boys — even before they lose Gerrit Cole for the season? You’d think that news would be impossible to miss.
But we know how life can be in spring training. Everyone has their own team to focus on. So let’s set aside those other clubs for now.
Clearly, the Yankees have to be excited about this, right? If they’re just one of the guys now, the pressure is off. That would seem liberating.
I started with Yankees manager Aaron Boone. It quickly became apparent that he, too, had not gotten this life-changing news bulletin.
“I don’t know,” Boone said. “I always think people want to beat us, and we usually get everyone’s best. I don’t think anything’s changed there. We’ve got a ton of stars. And I feel like people are always gunning for us. You can decide who the empire is or not.”
It didn’t seem as though Boone was that interested in hearing that his owner had already decided. So I pressed onward.
THE ATHLETIC: “Have you heard that the Yankees are not the Evil Empire anymore?”
SHORTSTOP ANTHONY VOLPE: “No. To me, they always will be.”
TA: “You saw the quote from your owner, right? That no team now can do what the Dodgers do. So obviously, they’re now the Evil Empire, and you guys are off the hook. You’re not seeing it?”
VOLPE: “No.”
TA: “So you’re saying the Yankees could never be like any other team?”
VOLPE: “(No.) There will never be, in my opinion, another team like it.
“That’s because of the Yankees that came before us. Just to carry on those traditions is really important to me.”
He had many more thoughts on the Yankees’ place in the game. He’s not wrong about any of them. But I also recognized that Volpe might not have a big-picture perspective. He was drafted by the Yankees, has only played for the Yankees and before that grew up rooting for … right, the Yankees.
Jazz: “I would rather have the mindset of thinking that we’re still the Evil Empire.” (Elsa / Getty Images)
So don’t we need to hear from someone who has spent most of his life and career outside that Yankees bubble? I thought maybe I’d found the perfect choice in infielder Jazz Chisholm Jr.
Born in the Bahamas, not to be confused with Yonkers. Grew up in Kansas, which is not a stop on the D train. Signed with the Diamondbacks at 17. Played five seasons with the Marlins before being traded to the Yankees last July.
Except I couldn’t even get my entire question out before Chisholm shot down the whole premise, saying: “The Yankees have always been the Evil Empire.”
TA: “Not anymore. You’re off the hook. The Yankees are just a normal franchise now. Does it feel like that’s a good thing or a strange thing?”
JAZZ: “That’s a strange thing. I don’t think the Yankees are a normal empire. And I don’t think our owner should say the Yankees are just a normal team, you know?”
Did Jazz just hand out unsolicited advice to his owner? I think he did. But he was just getting rolling.
JAZZ: “I mean, we’re still the Yankees. We still have the history. … So I would rather have the mindset of thinking that we’re still the Evil Empire, even if we’re not. I still love that mindset, because that means that we’re still on top of everybody.
“I like being at the top. Why wouldn’t I want to be at the top?”
Was this a spot where I should have jumped in and pointed out that, technically, it’s the Dodgers who are on top? Or that the Dodgers had beaten his Yankees in the last World Series?
I chose not to provide any more helpful perspective.
Dodgers fans cheer on the team from Tokyo during last year’s World Series. (Richard A. Brooks / AFP / Getty Images)
All right, so what about the Dodgers? They’ve heard all about what people think of them over the past couple of months. So let’s see how they’re enjoying their experience in their spiffy new Empire of Evil.
I texted their team president and CEO, Stan Kasten, and asked him a related question (which he probably thought was not that serious): How sorry should we feel for the Yankees now that the Dodgers are the Evil Empire (according to the Yankees)?
“I feel like this is a Mike Myers ‘SNL’ skit,” Kasten replied. “The Los Angeles Dodgers were neither evil, nor an empire. … Talk among yourselves.”
“Call me,” I texted back.
“Did you know,” Kasten said after I answered his call, “that the oddsmakers claim there’s a 75 percent chance that someone other than us wins the World Series this year? So it’s hard to be that evil or much of an empire if that continues.”
I’m not sure the oddsmakers get to hand out these definitions, though. So I tried to explain why the term,“Evil Empire,” could apply to his team. He didn’t seem that impressed.
“I accept all publicity, whether I like it or not,” Kasten said. “It’s just the world in which we live. I do know this: I think our fans, Dodger fans, who are my primary concern, are very happy with us. I’m happy about that.
“I think Major League Baseball is benefiting greatly from the attention our team gets, both in Los Angeles and everywhere else we travel to, as well as the increased attention and business we are helping to generate internationally. All of those are good things.”
So if Dodgers fans and baseball’s bean counters are happy, does that fundamentally mean the Dodgers can’t qualify for Evil Empiredom? Or would that billion and a half dollars or so that they’ve guaranteed to their favorite free agents these past two years override that? Talk among yourselves.
But while you’re talking, I hope you won’t mind if we hear from the president of the Yankees, Randy Levine. He goes back to the days of Boss (aka George) Steinbrenner. And the days when the late, great president of the Red Sox, Larry Lucchino, coined that phrase — the Evil Empire — in December 2002.
“It came in the throes of a great rivalry,” Levine said. “It happened when we signed José Contreras in the middle of the night. It really was something for the fans and the media to hang onto. It was a nice marketing tool, for both of us, in the rivalry.”
Yankees fans taunt Pedro Martinez as he exits Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. (Ezra Shaw / Getty Images)
It doesn’t sound like it’s a marketing tool the Dodgers will be leaning into anytime soon. But let’s say this for the Yankees: They didn’t just lean in over these past two decades. They took that Evil Empire stuff as a badge of honor.
• Did you know they still play the Darth Vader “Death Star alarm” in Yankee Stadium any time a Yankees pitcher gets to two strikes on a hitter?
• And remember when their general manager, Brian Cashman, described his deep, star-studded roster as “a fully operational Death Star” during the 2018 Winter Meetings?
• And back in 2013, when a company started selling Evil Empire T-shirts and merchandise, the Yankees unleashed their attorneys to put a stop to that unauthorized profiteering.
Asked if he recalled his team stepping in to halt those T-shirt sales, Levine chuckled and said: “I think we did. But that was strictly a licensing thing, because if anybody was going to make money on the Evil Empire, it had better be us.”
If his owner wanted to point the finger at some other Evil team, Levine was not going to argue. But did that mean his world had changed? That was news to him.
“The Yankees’ philosophy, both under George and continuing on with Hal, has basically always been the same,” Levine said. “Try and put the best team on the field you possibly can, to try and win the World Series every single year.”
So have we settled anything at all yet? No, we haven’t. So let’s do what we do here — and check out …
Your guide to Evil Empire fun facts
Hal and George Steinbrenner in 2008, when Hal became the Yankees’ control person. (Kathy Willens / Associated Press)
The case for the Dodgers: Have money. Lots and lots and lots of money. Will definitely spend it. That’s been the modus operandi of the Dodgers since their purchase by Mark Walter’s Guggenheim Partners in 2012.
Under Guggenheim, the Dodgers haven’t had an Opening Day payroll under $200 million in any full season. And in 2014, they passed the Yankees in the payroll standings for the first time in the 21st century. Since then …
Dodgers’ payrolls, 2014-24 — $2.64 billion
Yankees’ payrolls, 2014-24 — $2.42 billion
(Source: Spotrac)
But also, of the 10 full seasons in that span, which team had the higher payroll?
Dodgers — 8 years
Yankees — 2 years
So who’s the true fully operational Death Star? Seems pretty obvious. But on the other hand, don’t overlook …
The case for the Yankees: The Yankees did have a higher payroll than L.A. as recently as … last year. And the year before.
It also seems hard to overlook the Yankees’ monstrous spending, under George Steinbrenner, in the first portion of this century.
• The Yankees had the No. 1 payroll in baseball in each of the first 14 seasons of the 2000s, and by massive margins in more than half of them.
• In 2005 and 2006, they outspent the next-closest team (the Red Sox) by a combined $158.2 million. That’s an average of 79.1 million more dollars a year than anyone else — at a time when the average team wasn’t even spending $79 million on its entire roster.
• But it wasn’t just those two seasons. The Yankees’ payroll was at least $40 million higher than the next-biggest spender in eight seasons in a row (2003-10).
So the Steinbrenner family knows how to flex its check-writing muscles.
The Yankees have six players earning at least $25 million this season. The Dodgers only have five — although one of those five (some guy named Ohtani) will make $70 million (including deferrals). But you get the picture.
Oh, and one more thing: In Forbes’ 2024 rankings of the most valuable sports teams, the Yankees ranked first in baseball — and fourth in the world — at $7.55 billion. You have to read all the way down to No. 24 to find the Dodgers ($5.45 billion).
So we can all agree that the Yankees won’t be confused with the Pirates anytime soon, right? And the Dodgers are headed for a projected $389 million payroll, according to FanGraphs/Roster Resource — which seems like a lot.
But the real Evil Empire still hasn’t stood up. So maybe we can sort this out by answering some other questions you know you want to ask.
Dodgers vs. Yankees: Can there be more than one Evil Empire?
From left, Dodgers president Stan Kasten, GM Brandon Gomes, president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman, Roki Sasaki and manager Dave Roberts at Sasaki’s unveiling. (Kevork Djansezian / Getty Images)
Is there now some distance between how these two behemoths go about it? The AL executive quoted earlier thinks there is.
“I do think that mantle has been passed (to the Dodgers),” he said. “And this offseason probably cemented it. First, they sign Blake Snell. … And it was like they just kept piling on after that.
“And then, of course, they’re the team that wins the (Roki) Sasaki sweepstakes on the end of it. So I think at this point the industry views the Dodgers like they viewed the Yankees in the early 2000s.”
But could baseball have two Evil Empires?
“No, I think everybody needs a public enemy,” that same exec said. “I can’t remember a time, really, across sports, where there was more than one team in a given sport that had to wear the black hat.”
Are we sure that’s true? The Yankees aren’t.
“I think people used to think, after the cheating scandal, that the Astros were the Evil Empire,” Levine said. “So I think there’s no shortage of Evil Empires.”
There was even a time, he remembers all too well, that the Red Sox passed the Yankees in payroll, in both 2018 and 2019 — while winning their fourth World Series of the 21st century to boot. So if you google “Red Sox Evil Empire,” you’ll find plenty of stories suggesting that not too long ago, many people thought Boston had grabbed that torch, at least temporarily.
“That’s what I’m saying,” Levine said. “There are a lot of teams that could legitimately be classified as the Evil Empire at one point in time or another.”
Is this one of those times? In the last labor agreement, a new tax threshold was instantly labeled “the Steve Cohen tax,” in honor of the gazillionaire owner of the Mets.
So maybe the Mets are in the running for Evil Empire status, too — especially after signing Juan Soto, the first megastar free agent in history to dump the Yankees for the Mets.
Are there Evil Empires in the labor talks?
Baseball’s collective bargaining agreement doesn’t mention the words “evil” or “empire,” but that doesn’t mean those labor deals are devoid of Evil Empire-inspired rules and regulations. Just ask MLB Players Association head Tony Clark.
“I will say that there have been concerns raised by the league in regards to a specific team over the years. And those concerns manifested themselves in proposals in one fashion or another,” said Clark, with that union-chief smile that suggested neither of us thought that “specific team” was, say, the Royals.
“But now,” he added, “that team is not the one that everyone’s focused in on.”
Following this? I’m going to guess you are. So while we wait for those labor negotiators to formally identify the true Evil Empire in 2026, when the current CBA expires, there’s another important question to ask.
Is it bad to be Evil?
This feels like a trick question. Mostly, when asked, folks wanted no parts of it. Except for one of them.
It isn’t everyone who will gladly embrace all the evil in Evil Empiredom. But Jazz Chisholm Jr. is wrapping his arms 360 degrees around it.
TA: “So you’re all in on that Evil Empire mindset even though it’s ‘The EVIL Empire?’”
JAZZ: “I don’t care. I’m at the top. If evil means winning the World Series and getting paid, then that’s what we’re gonna do. You feel me? We’re gonna stay evil on this side. … Luke, I am your father.”
May the force be with … somebody
Beware R2D2: The Yankees are still the Evil Empire. Or are they? (Elsa / Getty Images)
So what have we learned? I think we’ve learned that the world hasn’t changed as much as Hal Steinbrenner led us to believe it had.
The Yankees still fly all those flags, salute all those monuments, play their Death Star jingles and flood the zone with payroll dollars and luxury tax payouts. They’re still a World Series-or-bust operation. And they’re still the same full-speed-ahead operation — only now with more facial hair.
But does that mean they’re still the Evil Empire?
“Do you know the famous Mike Royko quote?” Levine asked. “He basically said: ‘Hating the Yankees is as American as pizza pie and cheating on your taxes.’ So there’s nothing new about any of this.
“You know, nobody is evil,” Levine went on. “Yes, there are empires. But what’s wrong with that? I actually think some of these other teams can use a shot of a little Evil Empire. I think you know what I mean.”
Hmm. I think we do. But you know what team we can be pretty sure he does not mean? The Dodgers.
“We’re certainly not evil,” Kasten said, “not when we have this many fans and positive contributions to the game. And let’s face it. We’re not an empire. And if we ever become one, get back to me.”
If they’re not an empire now, how will we know when they become one?
“It’ll just take more of, well, everything,” Kasten said. “So we’re not there yet, but use your own definition. I don’t care. Just keep writing about us.”
(Illustration: Dan Goldfarb / The Athletic. Photos: Ezra Shaw, Harry How, Elsa / Getty Images)
